The Korean Seon (Zen) master Venerable Pomnyun Sunim (법륜스님) wears many hats: Buddhist monk, teacher, author, environmentalist, and social activist, to name a few.* As a widely respected Dharma teacher and a tireless socially engaged activist in his native South Korea, Ven. Pomnyun Sunim has founded numerous Dharma-based organizations, initiatives, and projects that are active across the world. Among them, Jungto Society, a volunteer-based community founded on the Buddhist teachings and expressing equality, simple living, and sustainability, is dedicated to addressing modern social issues that lead to suffering, including environmental degradation, poverty, and conflict.
This column, shared by Jungto Society, presents highlights from Ven. Pomnyun Sunim’s writings, teachings, public talks, and regular live-streamed Dharma Q+A sessions, which are accessible across the globe.
The following teachings were given in person in San Jose, California, on 16 September 2024.
Helping people in need
A few before Ven. Pomnyun Sunim’s Dharma talk, an IT company headquartered in the area, ST Microelectronics, requested a special lecture.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim arrived at the company’s headquarters and gave a light greeting to the 40 or so employees who had agthered from nearby IT companies, and introduced the purpose of the Dharma Q&A.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: It’s nice to meet you. This lecture wasn’t planned, but when they heard that I would be speaking in San Jose today, your company requested this talk, which was arranged at short notice. Thank you for participating despite the sudden arrangements.
I mainly seek to counsel people’s difficulties. When people have questions or sufferin in life, I have conversations to unravel the threads of their anguish. A Dharma talk is not about speaking on Buddhist doctrine or knowledge; it’s when our suffering disappears through talking about the stress or anguish we’re experiencing at the moment. That’s what we call a Dharma Q&A. The goal of a Dharma talk is to reach a state that’s free from suffering.
The Buddha also conversed with many people, guiding them to reach a state where their suffering was resolved through dialogue. Please speak as comfortably as you would to a friend.
I also do work to help people in need. This work seems to follow the teachings of Jesus more than the Buddha. In Matthew 25, Jesus said, “Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” And he mentioned six types of people as being the same as himself. These are the thirsty, the hungry, the sick, the naked, the stranger, and the prisoner. Giving water, food, medicine, clothes, and welcoming and visiting these people is the same as helping Jesus. In modern terms, it can be described as providing humanitarian aid to those struggling to survive.
When I help people with mental anguish, they often express gratitude and want to repay me by making donations. I use most of that money to support people who can’t even maintain a basic standard of living. As a result, I do a lot of humanitarian aid work for people in need in poor countries. You probably mostly have mental anguish. Let’s have a light conversation about whatever difficulties you have.
Competition and anxiety
Q; Here in Silicon Valley, competition is fierce. We want more and more, and we get into unhealthy mechanisms. We want to achieve personal ambitions, especially financial stability, and we want to buy nice things, and then we work harder and harder. When competition is fierce, we often feel anxious. How can we find balance in our lives?
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: There can’t be only good things in the world. If you borrow money, you have to pay it back with interest. If you eat delicious food, you’re bound to gain weight. If you want to be slim, you have to endure some hunger. This is the way of the world: everything comes with a price and consequences.
But now you’re trying to avoid paying that price. If you don’t want to pay interest, don’t borrow money, and if you’ve borrowed money, you should plan to pay it back with interest without fail. You shouldn’t think it’s unfair. If you want to eat delicious food, you have to accept weight gain, and if you want to prevent weight gain, you have to resist even when you want to eat.
Why do we feel stressed? We feel stressed because we want to eat as much as we want without gaining weight. We suffer because we think in ways that don’t make sense. We suffer because we look for ways not to repay money we’ve borrowed. That’s why you like things such as, “If you believe in God or Buddha, you don’t have to pay it back.”
If living a competitive life is too hard, you can quit. If you’ve entered into competition, then compete. You feel stressed when you lose because you’re attached to the idea that you must win. When you play soccer on a field, someone is bound to win and someone is bound to lose. But exercising for health has nothing to do with winning or losing. Whether you lose or win, you still get exercise. But if money is involved, there’s a big difference between winning and losing.
So I think it might be good to try competing as practice. In a competitive game, someone might lose and someone might win, right? There’s no need to become enemies just because you won or lost. I’d like you to live your life as if you’re practicing some sport. In other words, work as if you’re playing.
I once counseled a famous golf player who was stressed because his performance was declining, and he asked me whether he should retire. So I asked, “When you began playing golf, did you do it because it was fun? Or to make money?”’ He said he did it because it was fun at first. I asked, “Did you pay to play then? Or did you make money playing?” He said he paid to play. “But now, don’t you get paid some amount whether you win or lose?” I asked, and he answered, “If I can’t get first place, I still make money if I’m in the top 10.” So I told him: “Many people in this world pay to play golf, but you get paid to play golf. Why is that hard? So just play as if you’re having fun.” After receiving that advice, he continued his career as a player for more than 10 years.
I also once counseled a famous baseball player whose name you’d recognize. He was performing well in the major league then dropped into the minor league. In the major league, he flew business class and was provided with a personal car, but in the minors, he had to fly economy and take the bus. He said he couldn’t bear the loss of pride and wanted to quit. So I asked, “When did you start playing baseball?” and he said he started in middle school. “Then, why did you do it?” I asked, and he said he played because it was fun. Then I asked, “When you first joined a professional team, weren’t you happy to even get paid? And is the money you’re getting now more than when you first joined a professional team?” He said he was paid 10 times more. I pointed out that he was jumping for joy when he was paid just a tenth of what he’s getting now, but now he’s looking miserable while receiving 10 times more. I advised him to play as if he’s having fun. After this counseling, he continued his baseball career for another 10 years.
You too can enjoy whatever work you do here. You feel stressed when you lose because you’re attached to the idea that you must win. You need to break free from that obsession. Then you can live a little more freely. If things don’t work out well, you can quit. There’s no problem. You were living well before you joined this company, weren’t you?
Q: Thank you.
After the conversation concluded, Ven. Pomnyun Sunim agreed to return to talk again if there was another opportunity.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim then made his way to the venue for the day’s main talk. As he arrived at the lecture hall, volunteers were warmly welcoming attendees. Ven. Pomnyun Sunim greeted the volunteers. He then walked onto the stage, where the audience welcomed him with a round of applause.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: If your questions are resolved or your suffering is somewhat alleviated through this conversation, today’s talk becomes a Dharma talk. If the suffering is not resolved, it’s just a conversation. While the dialogue between the questioner and myself is important, I hope the audience will also listen attentively and participate together.
Different, together
Q: My perspective and opinions on life priorities are very different from those of my wife. For example, she wants me to clean something right away, but I don’t want to because I have other priorities. So my question is, should I have to adjust to her? I’ve asked many people who have been married for a long time, and they said you have to adjust to your partner because your partner won’t adjust to you. I feel upset that she doesn’t care about this point because I’m sensitive and considerate while she isn’t. How can I handle this different perspective with my wife?
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: If you had married someone who doesn’t clean well, you might feel more comfortable, but wouldn’t your home be a bit messy? It’s not particularly good for children’s education either. It’s a good thing that your wife cleans thoroughly. You should be grateful that your wife is doing a good job of cleaning, which you might not do properly yourself. And since most of what your wife nags about is generally good, it’s wise to follow. It’s best to follow the advice your friend gave: “Just do what your wife says.”
However, the problem is that you’re feeling stressed from constantly listening to your wife. If you truly feel grateful that your wife is cleaning, you can simply say, “Thank you, honey!” and benefit from her virtue. It’s best not to feel stressed like that. But you have your own stubbornness. You’re feeling stressed because there’s an underlying feeling of “why do we have to do it exactly like that?”
If we compare living cleanly with being stressed, being stressed is worse. So to reduce your stress, you can choose not to follow your wife’s words. Instead, you’ll have to listen to a lot of nagging from your wife. You shouldn’t think, “Why is she nagging?” You should accept that your wife has reasons to nag and say “I’m sorry.” It’s good to follow your wife’s opinions as much as possible, but sometimes you can do what you want to do. You’re not your wife’s slave, so you can’t do everything according to her wishes. However, when you do things your way, make sure to say “I’m sorry” first.
Q: For example, we have different opinions, such as how she really loves to go on vacations while I don’t. I prefer to stay home. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong in this situation, but how can we come to an agreement on this issue?
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: Wouldn’t it be better to go along with such things if you want to live with your wife? If that’s too difficult, you can divorce. Divorce isn’t a difficult thing. You’ll break even with divorce because you were originally alone. Marriage is about adjusting to each other. When you marry, two different people live together in one home. Marriage isn’t “compatible people living together,” but “different people meeting and adjusting to each other.” If you have this perspective, married life becomes more comfortable.
Let’s look at how human relationships are formed. We already think “they’ll be different from me” with regard to people we don’t know. But when we talk, we find out they’re Korean. Then we become a bit closer. As we talk more, we learn that we share the same religion, Christianity. We feel even more familiar. When we ask about hometowns, we find we’re from the same place. If our hobbies also match, the intimacy grows stronger. As we find more things in common, we gradually become closer. This can lead to becoming lovers or even marriage.
It’s interesting how our brains work. As we discover one, then two, then more similarities with the other person, our brain jumps ahead: it concludes, “Ah, we’re the same in everything.” That’s why we end up marrying. But when we live together, we also start discovering differences one by one. As you mentioned, concepts about cleaning differ, and preferences for salty or bland food differ. As we keep discovering differences, what does our consciousness conclude? We say, “Our personalities are incompatible,” “Our tastes are completely different,” and we break up, saying we can’t live together.
This is how meetings and partings occur. We meet because we discover similarities, and we part because we discover many more differences. We marry because we’ve found many similarities. That’s why after breaking up, when we meet someone new, we might think, “Oh, the previous person seems better.”
Whether you marry someone you’ve just met or someone you’ve dated for a long time, there’s actually not much difference in married life. Of course, people who’ve just met might have fewer things in common. However, because your brain hasn’t yet concluded that the two of you are the same, you keep discovering similarities as you live together. In other words, there’s no disappointment because expectations are low.
But what happens when you marry someone you’ve examined for a long time? In a situation where expectations are that high when you actually live together, anyone can fall short of expectations. So disappointment grows. Whether it’s someone you met on the street or someone you’ve known for 10 years, there’s not much difference when you live together. In the past, people even married those they first saw at the wedding ceremony, and the divorce rate wasn’t very high. But nowadays, even after meeting all sorts of conditions and even living together before marriage, the divorce rate is high.
You need to adjust to each other on the premise that you’re different. What’s the easiest way to adjust? The easiest is for me to follow the other person. Because that’s something I can decide. Then what’s the most difficult? Making the other person adjust to me. Because there’s nothing I can decide there. Most of you abandon the easiest path and choose the most difficult one. Practice is about taking the easy path. But because you always choose the difficult path, it’s natural that you get stressed. Keep getting stressed. (Laughter)
Q: Thank you.
The two-hour Dharma Q&A drew to a close and Ven. Pomnyun Sunim approached the attendees and questioners to shake their hands. After the audience had left the lecture hall, Ven. Pomnyun Sunim took a commemorative photo with the volunteers who had organized the event.
* Buddhist Monk Ven. Pomnyun Sunim Awarded the 37th Niwano Peace Prize (BDG)
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Pomnyun
Jungto Society
JTS Korea
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