The Korean Seon (Zen) master Venerable Pomnyun Sunim (법륜스님) wears many hats: Buddhist monk, teacher, author, environmentalist, and social activist, to name a few.* As a widely respected Dharma teacher and a tireless socially engaged activist in his native South Korea, Ven. Pomnyun Sunim has founded numerous Dharma-based organizations, initiatives, and projects that are active across the world. Among them, Jungto Society, a volunteer-based community founded on the Buddhist teachings and expressing equality, simple living, and sustainability, is dedicated to addressing modern social issues that lead to suffering, including environmental degradation, poverty, and conflict.
This column, shared by Jungto Society, presents highlights from Ven. Pomnyun Sunim’s writings, teachings, public talks, and regular live-streamed Dharma Q+A sessions, which are accessible across the globe.
The following teachings were given on 7 September 2024 in Auckland, New Zealand.
How can we live life without Suffering?
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim entered the meeting hall after showing a video introducing his work and Dharma activisites concluded. There was a big round of applause and he gave his opening remarks:
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: I thought it was just recently that I came to New Zealand, but it turns out it was already 10 years ago. Time seems to have passed that quickly. Young people probably don’t feel it, but when you get older, time really flies by! (Laughs)
In 2014, I traveled around the world and gave 115 consecutive lectures over 115 days. I visited everywhere in the world except Africa. I remember giving lectures in Mexico, Guatemala, Peru, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile, then arriving here in New Zealand before going to Australia. It’s been 10 years since then. I’m glad to see you all still alive and well.
This overseas schedule is for one month. I’m moving to a different city every day and giving lectures. Two weeks ago, I visited Switzerland and Germany, then Turkey, India, Bhutan, Thailand, and yesterday I gave a lecture in Sydney before coming to New Zealand today. From here, I’ll be going to Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, East Timor, and then to the North American West Coast—Seattle, Vancouver, San Francisco, LA, and San Diego.
Many people ask if it’s not tiring to travel so much, but it’s the planes that are tiring, not me. I just eat and sleep on the plane, and before I know it I’ve arrived at my destination. (Laughs)
If you keep thinking that something is difficult, it becomes even more difficult. If you completely change your perspective and think, “I’m traveling to over 10 countries in a short time,” or “I’m not just playing around, but meeting many people and having conversations,” then it’s not really a difficult thing at all.
The topic of our conversation today is “How can we live life without suffering?” When we experience a lot of suffering in life, we think, “Is God punishing me?” or “What sin did I commit in my past life?” Or we blame it on our fate, saying “Oh, my unfortunate destiny.” However, all suffering stems from our foolishness. The Buddha’s teaching is that if we can overcome our foolishness, we can overcome our suffering.
Those who had submitted questions in advance raised their hands and asked Sunim questions. At the end of the lecture, impromptu questions were also taken from the audience. Over the course of 2 hours and 30 minutes, 11 people were able to have a dialogue with Ven. Pomnyun Sunim.
I’m surrounded by selfish people
Q: I retired from all my work last year. With the extra time, I wanted to reflect on my life and think about what to do next. As I was sorting things out, I realized that the few people around me don’t get along with me at all.
I started cutting off contact one by one, blocking their numbers, until there was no one left. I thought, “This won’t do. I need to meet new people,” so I started going to church on the recommendation of an acquaintant. That person seemed to me to be very devout, polite, and trustworthy—really a good person. But when I was in the process of selling my existing house and looking for a new one, I realized that this person had found out I had a large sum of money and was trying to swindle me.
I’m not the type to fall for such things, but I was so shocked that as soon as I got home, I blocked all the church people’s contacts. I couldn’t spread rumors about it since I hadn’t actually been scammed yet.
I’m getting on in years now and don’t know when I might die. People usually judge a person’s life by the number of mourners at their funeral. When I die, my daughter will be fine, but I’m worried about what my son-in-law might think. I don’t think I’ve lived my life wrongly. Is it okay to just live like this? Or should I meet people I don’t get along with, thinking about that time?
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: I can’t say whether it’s better or worse to only meet people you like versus meeting people you don’t like as well. It’s a matter of choice. If you want to only meet good people, you can do that, and if you want to meet people you don’t like as well, you can do that too. We can’t say one choice is better or worse than the other.
For example, let’s say I meet eight people here. After spending a few days with them, I find that I only like two of them. If I only want to meet people I like, then I should only meet these two. Even if I like them, one of them might not like me. In that case, I shouldn’t think, “Why can I only make one friend?” If you only want to meet people you like, you can only meet a few people. There might even be no one to meet. On the other hand, if you want to meet many people, you have to meet people you don’t like as well. Then you shouldn’t think, “How can I meet people I don’t like?”
Think about doing business—should you only meet people you like? Or should you go beyond likes and dislikes? You need to go beyond likes and dislikes. If you want to do business for a long time, you shouldn’t be bound by your inner feelings. That’s how business thrives. If you’re too picky about likes and dislikes, all your customers will leave. So if you want to meet many people, you have to accept people you don’t like. We can’t say which is good or bad. It’s just that if you want that result, you need to go beyond your likes and dislikes.
Q: Most people seem to have only a few close friends. But in my case, everyone around me seems to be selfish. When I was working, I just let it slide, but now that I’ve retired and looked back, I regret wasting so much time and money on such people.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: Yes, in that case, you can cut off all relationships and live alone. For example, if I go to buy something and it’s too expensive, I can just leave without buying it. Or I could negotiate and buy it cheaper. Or, if it’s absolutely necessary, I could buy it at their price. There are no other options. You’re essentially asking, “I really want to buy this item, but they won’t lower the price. What should I do?”
Shall I be more direct? The reason you think “everyone around me is selfish” is because you are selfish.
Q: No, I’m definitely not selfish.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: If I’m talking to someone and they keep insisting on their own opinion, and I say, “This person is really stubborn,” does that mean I’m stubborn or not? How can I say someone is stubborn if I don’t have any stubbornness myself? It’s because I’m more stubborn than the other person that I say that. A person without stubbornness would be able to say, “Yes, you’re right!” The reason you think the people around you are selfish is because you have that trait yourself. You don’t know yourself well.
Q: Is that so?
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: If that’s not the case, then you might have a bit of anxiety or suspicion. First, you should get a medical check-up. From what you’ve said, it seems you have some anxiety about the future. And for some reason, perhaps due to some past hurt, you also seem to have a bit of suspicion. Because you have both anxiety and suspicion, we can say that you’re not in a mentally healthy state right now. If you go to the hospital and the doctor says, “Everyone is like that to some degree,” then you’re fine. If not, taking a mild tranquilizer might help. If you take medication as recommended by the doctor, your mental state will become much more stable.
Koreans have a higher proportion of people with depression or anxiety compared to the OECD average. However, the rate of Koreans receiving treatment at hospitals is much lower than in OECD countries. Not only do they not recognize these symptoms as mental illnesses, but even if they are diagnosed, they don’t seek treatment. This is because they worry that having a psychiatric treatment record will disadvantage them in the future. The high suicide rate and high number of depression patients among Koreans are due to this social atmosphere. If detected and treated early, these conditions can be improved, but they worsen when left untreated.
When people emigrate to foreign countries, they tend to develop more anxiety or suspicion than when living in their home country. You all think you’re normal, right? I expect that almost half of you have some anxiety or suspicion. You just don’t realize it because you’re all together with people who have similar symptoms. Most people feel tense or anxious when they go to unfamiliar places. They also constantly suspect things to avoid being harmed. When these experiences accumulate over a long time, they become habits. If immigrants don’t resolve the habit of always being tense and suspicious at the time, it accumulates and becomes a habit.
First, it seems that you need a medical check-up. Second, there are no rules about how to handle relationships in life. It’s a matter of what choices you make. If you want to meet only people you like, you can only meet a few people, and if you want to meet many people, you need to go beyond your likes and dislikes. When meeting people, you also need to give a little. That’s how people come to like you. Whether it’s buying meals, helping out when something happens, or giving free consultations like I do, you need to offer some virtue for people to like you.
Why do you think the audience here is clapping and enjoying themselves? It’s because they’ve received help from watching my Q&A sessions on YouTube, or they’ve benefited from me in some way, so they’ve come all the way to the lecture hall and are clapping and enjoying themselves.
If you want to make friends with many people, you need to give a little. You can’t hold onto your emotions. If someone has a bit of a nasty temper, it might be uncomfortable to meet them. But you’ll never lose anything to such a person. Because people who get angry easily are very unlikely to be con artists. On the contrary, people who are extremely kind, speak well, look good, dress well, spend generously, and seem fine in every way are much more likely to be con artists. It’s like using different bait when fishing, depending on the fish you want to catch.
I understand that you found your colleagues and acquaintances unpleasant due to their personalities. But they are unlikely to cause you harm. The people who seemed fine to you are more likely to be con artists. So when someone approaches you too kindly, you should be a bit cautious. There’s nothing in the world that’s absolutely advantageous or disadvantageous. There are no unconditionally good people, nor unconditionally bad people.
If I had tried to scam you all today, many of you would have fallen for it. You need to understand this human nature to live life wisely. You shouldn’t hate con artists. They showed kindness before, after all. Even con artists are just trying to get their money’s worth after showing kindness. So you shouldn’t view it too negatively. People who think like you are called selfish.
Q: Actually, I felt more comfortable after cutting off contact with people.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: If you feel more comfortable, then that’s fine. The fewer people who come to your funeral, the better. What good does it do you if many people come to pay their respects after you’re dead? That’s all just for your children to make money. They’re trying to recover the condolence money they’ve given out before. The number of people around you matters while you’re alive, but it doesn’t matter at all after you’re dead. The number of mourners at your funeral, and even the way the funeral is conducted, have nothing to do with the deceased. That’s for the living to deal with, so you don’t need to worry about it. No matter how devoutly you attend a temple, if your child goes to church, will your funeral be Buddhist or Christian?
Q: It would be Christian, I suppose.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: That’s all for the living to decide, so you don’t need to worry about it.
Q: I see, I understand now.
Ven. Pomnyun Sunim: Let’s think about this logically. It’s normal for siblings to fight over inheritance if their parents leave some assets behind. You shouldn’t think that the children lack affection for each other because of this. If you want your children to have affection for each other, you shouldn’t leave any inheritance.
In the old days when kings were the rulers of countries, only the king’s children could become kings. In that situation, siblings fought each other, but they had no reason to harm anyone else. That’s why in struggles for the throne, dozens of siblings were sometimes killed. You shouldn’t see this as a problem with those siblings either.
If you leave behind assets, could any of the other people here covet those assets? No one would. The only people who could covet your assets are your children. That’s why when you leave an inheritance, there’s bound to be conflict between siblings. You shouldn’t view this negatively. Even in a corporation, conflicts arise between internal shareholders, not with external people. So conflicts between children over inheritance should be seen as the parents’ fault.
If you leave assets to your children, they may fight over them. So if you want your children to get along well after you’re gone, you shouldn’t leave an inheritance. However, in that case, your children might not come to your funeral. (Laughs)
There’s nothing in the world that happens that can be considered particularly bad. Everything happens for a reason. It’s just a matter of “How will I deal with this?” It’s a question of choice.
Q: Thank you.
By the time the Dharma conversations ended, it was almost 10 p.m. Ven. Pomnyun Sunim immediately began a book signing session at the foot of the stage. Many of the attendees received autographs and expressed their gratitude.
* Buddhist Monk Ven. Pomnyun Sunim Awarded the 37th Niwano Peace Prize (BDG)
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Pomnyun
Jungto Society
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